I think I'll use this opportunity to make a comment that my trad identity prevents me from making elsewhere. I really find that fact that large numbers of women like to punched, choked and spat on during sex absolutely disgusting. I used to be mildly freaked out that 1 in 4 women I would pass in the street had had an abortion, but that was really ideological whereas this is visceral. I never enjoyed the company of women as a rule, but now I have a hard time even looking at them as human beings. My wife says it's all fake and they are just polling whores, but the data seems pretty robust. I genuinely can't comprehend how someone could think a woman who likes having her head stuck down the toilet [!] has any kind of human dignity whatsoever. This is a shame because my misogyny was trending downwards until this started appearing in my substack feed.
Does the fact that large numbers of men enjoy *doing* these degrading things to their female partners, and enjoy watching pornography that features these things, make you struggle to see men as human beings?
Huh? Lots of people fantasize about doing bad things and don't do them.
Choking is dangerous under any circumstances, threatening both the airway and blood supply to the brain. I've had numerous requests for it and acceded to absolutely zero.
But, if you don't punch hard enough to do damage, who cares? Spitting? It's kinda gross, but if both parties enjoy it and the person has a clean mouth, it's between the two of them.
And the other stuff listed...throwing someone onto a bed? Depends how hard, obviously, but beds are about the softest thing around. Spanking? The buttocks have the most fat of anywhere in the body to act as a shock absorber, that's why it's so popular. Hard thrusting? Could be pleasurable if it stimulates more nerve endings, the clitoris extends below just the little nubbin you know. Being pinned down? You've got your lover on top of you, lot of physical contact and they feel very powerful. Being tied up? Obviously dangerous, but if you actually trust the person it might be arousing (and there are plenty of ways to do it without actually hurting the person). Hair pulling? How hard?
A lot of this seems like 'imitation violence'. If you don't like it, *THAT'S OK*, and you and your wife shouldn't do it. Vanilla is a valid flavor of ice cream. I never got the whole desire to be cool either.
And why would some degree of masochism mean someone's not a human being? Lots of people of both sexes engage in self-destructive behavior like alcohol or drug use, or risky behavior like skydiving or car racing. Maybe this is a more realistic adrenaline rush for the ladies? (There are plenty of male masochists, as Lawrence of Arabia, Sacher-Masoch or Swinburne could tell you.)
I don't know man, I'm not woke but I don't really get the right either. If it's not actually dangerous and both parties like it, why do I care what two people are doing with each other?
You have to be really careful with data in aggregate like this. I don't think the abortion rate necessarily means "1 in 4 women you pass in the street have had an abortion" unless you're going down to the inner city. You say you grew up traditionally (although being jewish that certainly means something different for you than me) which I think changes things a lot. I know the people I grew up with in a traditional setting don't match a lot of what the national data would suggest at all. AFAIK not a single one of them has had an abortion. I suppose they would hide it if they did but most got married so young I'm not sure how that would make sense to do.
If you're not careful with stuff like this you can end up making some really dumb decisions.
I think you did a really good job of outlining these points and this is a genuinely interesting comparison (and an honest one, as it should be, but rarely is for a lot of politically tied opinion on this site). I want to take a detailed look at this but I will say that you may want to check a broader base of studies to get a better overall picture because there's quite a bit of variability in reporting. Also there are other factors here, like country for example (all sources should be from a single country at minimum). I think this may be worth a Part 2.
>Conservative satisfaction seems to have less to do with better performance, and more to do with shame over “lustful thoughts,” which suppresses self-reported dissatisfaction....Specifically, when we control for church attendance, the correlation between leftism and sexual dissatisfaction disappears. This may be because church attending couples have more frequent or higher quality sex, or it may be because church attending couples are self-deceiving about their sexual dissatisfaction for moralistic reasons, such as believing that the desire for more or kinkier sex is sinful.
i gotta say this seems pretty motivated, do you have any evidence for this? my social experience is that liberal women have much more of their identity tied up in being a "sex enjoyer" than conservative women do, & often feel great shame when they admit to any sexual dysfunction or dissatisfaction.
my guess would be that the neutral fact is that liberals are people who want change for whatever reason, so of course someone is more likely to want change if they have some kind of problem, so i would expect whether "conservatism is correct" or "liberalism is correct" that people who are having a worse time on any dimension would be more likely to be liberal
I admire your intellectual honesty. It's quite possible for something like leftism to be good in some ways (more sexual satisfaction, better relationships) and bad in others (more anxiety, fewer kids).
Liberal women finding their liberal male partners unattractively mild is a bit of a trope for a reason.
You ought to consider that the emotional valence of 'rough sex' might differ between liberals and conservatives--liberals might think 'this is weird sex and therefore OK' and conservatives might think 'this is weird sex and therefore bad'.
"Having children lowers testosterone for both men and women. This is unexpected, since low testosterone increases anxiety and depression."
OK, but it's possible for A to be correlated with B, B to be correlated with C, but A to be negatively correlated with C. Education increases income, income increases conservatism, but education decreases conservatism.
I think I'll use this opportunity to make a comment that my trad identity prevents me from making elsewhere. I really find that fact that large numbers of women like to punched, choked and spat on during sex absolutely disgusting. I used to be mildly freaked out that 1 in 4 women I would pass in the street had had an abortion, but that was really ideological whereas this is visceral. I never enjoyed the company of women as a rule, but now I have a hard time even looking at them as human beings. My wife says it's all fake and they are just polling whores, but the data seems pretty robust. I genuinely can't comprehend how someone could think a woman who likes having her head stuck down the toilet [!] has any kind of human dignity whatsoever. This is a shame because my misogyny was trending downwards until this started appearing in my substack feed.
Does the fact that large numbers of men enjoy *doing* these degrading things to their female partners, and enjoy watching pornography that features these things, make you struggle to see men as human beings?
Men are really only ever doing what they think women want
Yes and no. A guy may be into rougher sex, but not toilet-head stuffing. If a woman really wants that he's probably likely to go along with it though.
So, it's both.
Huh? Lots of people fantasize about doing bad things and don't do them.
Choking is dangerous under any circumstances, threatening both the airway and blood supply to the brain. I've had numerous requests for it and acceded to absolutely zero.
But, if you don't punch hard enough to do damage, who cares? Spitting? It's kinda gross, but if both parties enjoy it and the person has a clean mouth, it's between the two of them.
And the other stuff listed...throwing someone onto a bed? Depends how hard, obviously, but beds are about the softest thing around. Spanking? The buttocks have the most fat of anywhere in the body to act as a shock absorber, that's why it's so popular. Hard thrusting? Could be pleasurable if it stimulates more nerve endings, the clitoris extends below just the little nubbin you know. Being pinned down? You've got your lover on top of you, lot of physical contact and they feel very powerful. Being tied up? Obviously dangerous, but if you actually trust the person it might be arousing (and there are plenty of ways to do it without actually hurting the person). Hair pulling? How hard?
A lot of this seems like 'imitation violence'. If you don't like it, *THAT'S OK*, and you and your wife shouldn't do it. Vanilla is a valid flavor of ice cream. I never got the whole desire to be cool either.
And why would some degree of masochism mean someone's not a human being? Lots of people of both sexes engage in self-destructive behavior like alcohol or drug use, or risky behavior like skydiving or car racing. Maybe this is a more realistic adrenaline rush for the ladies? (There are plenty of male masochists, as Lawrence of Arabia, Sacher-Masoch or Swinburne could tell you.)
I don't know man, I'm not woke but I don't really get the right either. If it's not actually dangerous and both parties like it, why do I care what two people are doing with each other?
You have to be really careful with data in aggregate like this. I don't think the abortion rate necessarily means "1 in 4 women you pass in the street have had an abortion" unless you're going down to the inner city. You say you grew up traditionally (although being jewish that certainly means something different for you than me) which I think changes things a lot. I know the people I grew up with in a traditional setting don't match a lot of what the national data would suggest at all. AFAIK not a single one of them has had an abortion. I suppose they would hide it if they did but most got married so young I'm not sure how that would make sense to do.
If you're not careful with stuff like this you can end up making some really dumb decisions.
I think you did a really good job of outlining these points and this is a genuinely interesting comparison (and an honest one, as it should be, but rarely is for a lot of politically tied opinion on this site). I want to take a detailed look at this but I will say that you may want to check a broader base of studies to get a better overall picture because there's quite a bit of variability in reporting. Also there are other factors here, like country for example (all sources should be from a single country at minimum). I think this may be worth a Part 2.
>Conservative satisfaction seems to have less to do with better performance, and more to do with shame over “lustful thoughts,” which suppresses self-reported dissatisfaction....Specifically, when we control for church attendance, the correlation between leftism and sexual dissatisfaction disappears. This may be because church attending couples have more frequent or higher quality sex, or it may be because church attending couples are self-deceiving about their sexual dissatisfaction for moralistic reasons, such as believing that the desire for more or kinkier sex is sinful.
i gotta say this seems pretty motivated, do you have any evidence for this? my social experience is that liberal women have much more of their identity tied up in being a "sex enjoyer" than conservative women do, & often feel great shame when they admit to any sexual dysfunction or dissatisfaction.
my guess would be that the neutral fact is that liberals are people who want change for whatever reason, so of course someone is more likely to want change if they have some kind of problem, so i would expect whether "conservatism is correct" or "liberalism is correct" that people who are having a worse time on any dimension would be more likely to be liberal
I admire your intellectual honesty. It's quite possible for something like leftism to be good in some ways (more sexual satisfaction, better relationships) and bad in others (more anxiety, fewer kids).
Liberal women finding their liberal male partners unattractively mild is a bit of a trope for a reason.
You ought to consider that the emotional valence of 'rough sex' might differ between liberals and conservatives--liberals might think 'this is weird sex and therefore OK' and conservatives might think 'this is weird sex and therefore bad'.
"Having children lowers testosterone for both men and women. This is unexpected, since low testosterone increases anxiety and depression."
OK, but it's possible for A to be correlated with B, B to be correlated with C, but A to be negatively correlated with C. Education increases income, income increases conservatism, but education decreases conservatism.